Gay marriage?
With the defeat of gay marriage in the state of Maine yesterday, gay marriage has now been defeated in 31 states, every time that the people have been given the opportunity to vote on it. Should Christians be opposed to gay marriage? If so, what are the reasons why Christians should be opposed to gay marriage?
Comment by Ryan Norton
yes. we as christians should support biblical standards and oppose non biblical ones. im not saying hate gay people, because God loves them just like anyone else. But “GAY MARRIAGE” is biblically incorrect. Marriage is the union between ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN not man-man or woman-woman. Leviticus states it’s an abomination. We must be opposed to it because God’s Word is opposed to it.
Comment by Laurie Gustafson
Christians should be against the gay lifestyle let alone gay marriage. It does not mean that we should be against the person…just the sin. Make the distinction brothers! I Corinthians 6:9-11 says, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”
I Timothy 1:5-11 says, “But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,”
Do I absolve us of anything..no! We have to make the choice every minute of every day not to sin. Most if not all of us fail to make the right choice in one way or another. I do not address those who do not know Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. These arguments would not make sense to you. I speak to my brethren who do know and understand the Bible and it’s authority in a believer’s life.
Leviticus 18:22 says, “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.”
The same goes for women as well. Just because the male personal pronoun is being used doesn’t mean we women are exempt.
I Thessalonians 4:3 says, “For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;”
and follow that with Hebrews 12:14 which says, “Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.”
The bible is rife with words about the immoral or impure who don’t turn away. How the sin is an abomination to God. If a person goes on in that sin they risk more than just a death from disease.
Revelation 21:7-8 says, “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Yes, god is a loving God who hates sin but He does forgive. The problem becomes just that a problem when you get forgiveness but decide you can go on in that sin. It applies to all sin not just sexual immorality.
So my question becomes not should christians be against gay marriage but why wouldn’t they be knowing how god feels about it?
Comment by Rachel
We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. But we have to remember that “sin” means ALL sin and not just sexual immorality. We love the sinner (say a gay person) because we can identify with them as a sinner…because we are all sinners! We then can share the amazing forgiveness of our Creator and the Gospel. We need not argue with them. Just present the Gospel and then place it in God’s loving and caring hands.
I have several gay people on my facebook and I don’t hide my faith. With one of them, I explained that even though I didn’t agree with her lifestyle, it didn’t mean that I didn’t love her and care for her. I then gave her the Gospel and she was quite open to it. I didn’t have to get into her “sin” with her. Really, it’s beside the point of what the sin is because all sin is…sin! What was important was her need to know how to have a true and real relationship with Christ.
Maranatha!
Comment by Child of the King
Gay Marriage is an Abomnimation to The Lord.
God created Adam And Eve not Bruce and Steve….
God is not the Author of Confusion (I Corinthians 14 v 33). Romans 1 v 28-32 is Crystal clear about Sin.
To be sure Homosexuality is an Unclean Spirit straight from Hell. The Good News for Lesbians/Gays God will remove that Unclean Spirit and make them Righteous if They are willing to Repent and willing to be converted.
In a prior post I mentioned I know of 10 former Lesbians/Gays now Children of God.
Transvestites/Pedophiles are all of Unclean Spirits as well. They’re sins are no greater or less to The Lord then a Thief Liar Alcoholic or Drug Addict. Sin is Sin plain and simple.
If we know of a person who is Homosexual we should pray for them and do our best to invite them to church and witness unto them. I would’nt wish The Lake of Fire on anyone even a worst enemy.
Comment by ceseeley
All;
Ryan Norton, Laurie Gustafson, Rachel, excellent comments! Laurie, you showed me some new scriptures about this subject. In Iowa, the Iowa Supreme Court voted “Unanimously” for Gay Marriage and implemented it in the state; they legalized a Biblical Sin, they should all be voted out of their positions. One wonders how they rationalized their vote!
Comment by Terri Pinder-Chambers
The term “Gay Marriage” should be considered an oxymoron by all Christians because it makes no sense. I’d like to know, in the name of what “god” are two men or two women joined together? I bet that whoever coined the phrase, “… politically correct”, had no idea of the extremes to which it would be used. Because we’ve all become too complacent when it comes to standing up for what we believe in, we’re afraid that we’ll be ostracized or segregated or called hate mongers. Jesus was betrayed, beaten, spat upon and crucified! How much more humiliation is there?
Reading the posts here, I find that the biblical references are right on point. What more needs to be said regarding the fact that gay marriage is contradictory to Gods intentions for mankind? To live a Christian life is a conscious choice that we have to make every waking moment of every day. I will admit that I struggle everyday; and I’m learning to be more mindful of every word “before” it comes out of my mouth. I continually have to ask the Holy Spirit to guide my mind, my heart, my spirit and my soul.
For me as a Christian to vote for the implementation of gay marriage, which would parallel the laws to that of one man married to one woman and all that it entails, would be a slap in the face of our God Almighty.
And I realize that the Bible tells us that things will only grow worst as end times approach, and I often pray that those events would not have to come to pass. But then if those agonizing events do not unfold as the Bible says, then the glorious return of Jesus Christ would not occur. So I must keep the faith. I must not lose hope. I must continue to pray daily for the Holy Spirit to give me the strength to make it through the day; moment by moment.
Please let us pray continually for each other; for the Holy Spirit to give us the strength that we need.
Sha’lom!
Comment by Child of the King
Ceseeley
Good thoughts. We must remember the “Gay Lobby” is not going to stop trying to get their way. People in Florida and California rejected Gay Marriage yet the Gay Lobby has filed petitions to have it back on the ballot next election. They have a Friend in the White House now. The people in Iowa need to Vote out of office anyone who supports turning a state into a Sodom and Gomorrah commune.
ACLU another story..they pick on Cash-Strapped school districts regarding prayer in school or saying a Blessing over Food; But would’nt dare try to sue Our Government over “In God We Trust” on our Money or Swearing in someone on a Bible (Which is really a Blasphemy unto The Lord..Read Matthew 5 v 34/James 5 v 12)
At any rate they pick on those who don’t have the Cash flow to fight back.
If anyone is interested on just who started the ACLU just Google “ACLU” and find out!
Comment by gloria lombard
I think some people try the “act” & like it & some people are born that way, because the devil can get into any thing. The devil can get into the seed before the child is born & change hormones. Hey, the devil be at church sitting on the front row trying to see who he can devour. So think about it you people. What is good comes from God. What is bad comes from Satan.
Comment by Mimi
okay I said I would use scripture , but most of what I would use has been used and my spirit has been stirred, so now I must speak. First I see a great amount of love here, and soes that make me proud to be a part of this group of individuals. I stuggle with this topic, I feel so much for these individuals and II often times feel that they wish that they had been born differently. However I also feel there are those who are NOT homosexual, but act out in this life style due to sexual abusse that they suffered. I don’t have all the answers if I did I would be GOD. I wouldn’t want his job it would break my heart. But I really struggle with this issue and I don’t know what to say. But I must say one thing comment 38, Gloria, if what you say is true it scares the hell out of me. I can’t believe God would allow what you have said. If so what type of God is he? Something like what you have said really shakes my faith. Do you have scripture to back it up? I highly doubt it. This isn’t the God I know, this God you describe is a heartless God, how can you say this?
Comment by Debbie
I don’t support gay marriage. However, I have been doing a study at home lately with a pastor on the ten commandments. There is alot of emphasis these days on homosexuality and lesbianism, yet, ALL adultery is a sin. That means any sex outside of a marriage relationship between a man and woman. So all those who are living together, practicing masturbation, pornography, bestiality, incest, pedophilia and YES those who are Biblically divorced, yet, re-married. The Bible allows for a divorce under certain conditions, but it never says that a believer is then free to re-marry unless the spouse has died. So look around and before we start focusing on “gays” we need to define adultery. Do some word study on adultery and fornication. The divine institution of human government, by trying to legalize opposition to the sixth commandment has brought down the wrath of God upon the nation and there will be a price exacted for it. Sin is sin. Mimi, Gloria is not totally incorrect. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (1PET 5:8) He does this while masquerading as goodness and light. “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” (2COR 11:14-15) Our only defense is to have God’s knowledge and we can only have it through His Word. “I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.” (PSALM 138:2) Arm yourselves and encourage a brother who is practicing homosexuality to cease. If he does not, have nothing more to do with him, but always remember to examine your own lives and sins before confronting another about theirs. (1JOHN 1:8-10)
MARANATHA
Comment by Douglas Summers
Hi Mimi, gloria and All,
The first thing is that what is known by man…because God gave us all the TRUTH, But many have exchanged the TRUTH of God for a lie…..One of the lies is that men are born homosexual! It is a lie!
God gives men over to their vile affections. Man who is absent from the obedience of God…who think themselves wise, are left up to their own creations and the condemnation of it. Romans 1:12-32. Reads it. Yourt questions are answered if you will open your eyes and believe.
About loving the sinner. God has given a choice for all men in this age to escape the wrath that is soon to come upon the earth.
In the True body of Christ….His Church, there is to be no fellowship with those who claim to be Christians but live like the Gentile. We are to have no fellowship with them. God will give us oppertunity to witness in many ways….not with just words.
God gives us more permission to deal daily in our lives with those that are outside the body of Christ…God will judge them, but we are to maintain holiness in the body.(1 Cor.5:9-6:20) Read it.
BTW, weare not children of God, we are Sons of God the Father, and brothers of God the Son. Christ is king, but not King of the Church…He is the head of the Church, and we are His body and temple.
We are all one in Christ and adult Son’s of God the Father.(Eph.4:1-24; 5:22-33)
In Christ
Doug
Comment by Mimi
This can’t be true ” The devil can get into the seed before the child is born & change hormones”, Glorias statement, I refuse to believe that the God I have known would allow this if so Exorcism part 2 here is your story line. This is such a demonic thought and I can’t accept it as truth. Prove it to me and I may lose my faith all together. Just when I am getting it back. Get behind me satan!
Comment by Mimi
ceseeley, I need your help!
Comment by Mimi
Oh Douglas, I read your comment and for some reason I didn’t comprehend what you were saying. Now I have re-read it and I think I am better understanding what you were trying to say. You say people aren’t born homosexual, than if so you are also discounting what Gloria said, great! I don’t believe what Gloria said to be truth at all. But I do feel and of course I don’t have scripture to go by, but I do feel however that some people are born homosexual and it is like a birth defect of sorts. I really feel this way and haven’t yet changed my mind. I see other birth defects, I have even seen people born with both sex organs and they are male and female. Why would this be a possibility? I think sometimes we have to have all of the answers in order to prove our faith. This very subject is one of the things that has me on my own journey. I don’t want to rebell against God. I don’t want to lead others to hell. I just want to understand and not always feel that everything has an answer, because honestly, I don’t believe that everything does have an answer. I really struggle with this subject in fact I got in a drag out debate with someone one time and I promised I would pray about it. This is where I stand. I would love to have an easy answer and not have to think about it beyond a scripture verse, but I can’t.
Comment by curtis
I believe the Bible teaches against the homosexual lifestyle, and because that is what the Bible teaches do I believe that it is wrong. Everyone has the right to decide on many issues we Christians get involved with, but We Christians should mind our own business and let the Bible speak for itself, meaning that if we are Christians we cannot lead the homosexual lifestyle, if we are not Christ followers and Believers we have no say in what other people do, it’s comes down to what God teaches about this.
Comment by Mimi
Debbie thanks for your scripture verses, but I do have to say Gloria may not be toally incorrect, but she sure isn’t totally correct either. I do feel that she has a good thought process for a great horroe movie though, LOL I am not trying to be disrepectful to you Debbie, I know you are trying to help. I just have to say this whole thing she said really grosses me out!
Comment by Mimi
Why are people sitting back and allowing Gloria to speak about God in this fashion?
Comment by Dennis
Mimi, I agree with you 100%. I know about 30 females that are lesbians and all but one was sexually molested by a male figure while they were young. The same goes for about 6 males that I know. I can only pray for these folks because without the grace of God we could all be guilty of this or another sin. Let’s condemn the sin but not the person!
Comment by Mimi
Okay Gloria if what you say is true than the devil has more control over our destiny than God. We may as well just call it a day. Cause we are helpless to the devil when he can change our DNA. You mean to say that he has more power over us than God? Not so, and I rebuke what you have said. I will stand against you even if no one else will. God is the all powerful, not satan, as far as I am concerned he can go to Hell where he belongs, (thought I would throw that in for a laugh to break some of the tension, I am feeling, haha). But really this is so disturbing, how you could say what you said, I would like to know how you could believe it for even a second, truely it is something from a horror movie, not the Book of Love.
Comment by Mimi
Dennis thank you. We need to have compassion. We don’t know the hell others live, because we don’t want to walk in their shoes. I just can’t have a ready made answer for everything. I so much appreciate what you shared. God knows I am honestly looking to him for answers and that I am not looking to rebel and turn against him or his word. I just can’t say what I don’t believe to be true. Everyone here has shown so much compassion for homosexuals and I think that has been great. Hate the sin not the sinner, yes I understand this. But I still search for how some became homosexual and I do believe for some it is a birth defect. Someone explain to me why God creates some individuals with both sex organs, was it meant to be that way? How about siamese twins? Or severe mental retardation and gross physical handicaps at birth, is that part of God’s perfect plan? Why can’t homosexuality be a birth defect?
Comment by Bruce
note: this is not the same Bruce mentioned in #4
If the bible is read correctly we and they will find that this action is an abomination of God and defeats his Holy purpose.We all know this and hold it to be true by Gods word.
My question is ,,,what Bible do they use in gay churches.
Comment by Dennis
Mimi, I understand what you are saying. I often ask myself the same questions. How can a person be born with both sex organs and not be confused? If you could visit some asylumns there are people in there that are very disfigured, out of their minds and for a better word some would even say they were born freaks. Is this God’s perfect will. Will these people go to heaven or hell. I really do not know all of the answers and I am not trying to discourage anyone because I do believe that Jesus died for all of our sins. Yes ALL of our SINS.
Comment by Mimi
Dennis, Without Doubt Jesus died for our sins and he suffered greatly. There is never a question about his love. But yes I do wonder people born as you described, why? I believe they are in hell and Heaven will be their greatest reward. Why create a human life to suffer in this way just to face eternal hell? NO, that is NOT God at all. The God I know so well is a God of Mercy. I believe that God allows some birth defects so that we can see our blessings, because we live in a body that is whole. I believe that those born in that fashion also have a greater place in Heaven. I often think of the severally mentally retarded as angels and their caregivers as Saints. Nice meeting you Dennis. This has really been interesting for me lately, I seem to be very passionate and keep coming here.
Comment by uther
I guess I’ll probably be the first gay person to post my views here. Without a doubt the Bible says that homosexuality is sinful, so I guess the only way to live my life according to the will of God is to live a life of celibacy because the statistics of reparative therapy is depressingly low anyways. Please pray that I will NOT change this view when I get lonely years later, because I”m still young. I really want to please God and not incur His wrath!
Comment by Dennis
“to live my life according to the will of God is to live a life of celibacy” This is probably what many people should do to serve God better but few do. uther I pray for you to have strength to carry on. However if you do falter, please do not give up! Ask God to forgive you and try to do better the next day. None of us is perfect and we all have our our own temptations to overcome but Jesus did pay the price for us and he will give us stength.
Comment by Mimi
Uther I love you. You are the greatest of men to me! God Bless You, I know it can’t be easy for you. I know what you feel is real and that you have to deny yourself. All to be pleasing onto God and to keep from his wrath. What great love you have for your Father. I am so sorry you have to struggle with this. Do you feel that I am right about some people being born gay, I really feel that way, please tell me whatyou think. You are the Christain of Christians, I will pray for you. I hope that God will even bless you for your obedience and maybe help to change your orientation, would you like that? Tell me if there is anything else you want specific prayer for. To me you are an example of what it is to follow Christ. Thank you, I am very touched by what you shared with us. Love, Mimi
Comment by Mimi
Dennis thanks for what you said to Uther, I think that it is beautiful. I really have a soft placae in my heart for this individual, don’t you? God Bless him.
Comment by Debbie
Carry on uther! I have done this since divorcing 30 some years ago. I am still a sinner even if a celibate one. Once again, people will totally focus on homosexuality and not give a thought to divorce. God will bless you in the end. Mimi, I don’t think Satan goes into the womb and changes DNA. However, God quit creating in GENESIS, so all children created since Adam’s Fall are the result of the parents sperm, eggs, DNA. He has created each child in the fact that He ordained the life of each baby since eternity past. This is called a transducean viewpoint. That is why Jesus was so special. Do you agree that God was able to go into the womb and create Him? God is omnipotent and can do whatever He wants to do. Children and those who do not have the mental capacity to know otherwise enjoy God’s protection. Normally functioning children reach an age of accountability. That does not mean they are not harmed by Satan and his demons in the meantime. The devil can attack directly or through family, friends and circumstances to destroy them and any relationship with God. How do you account for the death of all JOB’s sons and daughters? God allowed Satan to destroy them. Satan can only do what God allows him to do. Read JOB chapter 1.
Comment by Dennis
Debbie you are an inspiration that life does go on without sex! Mimi I can tell that you are a compassionate person and yes uther is special and he needs our daily prayers because of his youth. You are all special, very special because we are trying to uplift each other and keep pressing on to our high goal and prize in heaven. God Bless All of You and pray for me too.
Comment by Sheila
The Bible says that we are conceived in sin and born in sin, which means we all have a sinful nature. This means that people can be born with a predisposition to homosexuality, just like any other sin. Does this mean that we should give ourselves over to that sin? No. But what happens is, instead of turning to God and fighting against our sins, we feed them until they have completely enslaved us and we no longer feel like we have a choice. This is true with all sins, not just homosexuality.
The Bible says that Satan is the god of this evil world, which means that God has given Satan a great deal of power to tempt us. As Christians, we are quick to point out the depravity of homosexuality, which it is. But we tend to ignore other sins which are egregious to God. Yes, we should be opposed to gay marriage because it is an abomination to God. We should also stand against divorce, sex before marriage, and the other issues that make a mockery of God’s design for family.
Comment by Child of the King
Uther
Thank you for your admission and desire to try and live celebate,
I want to say this to you. You don’t have keep Unclean Spirits within you and suffer through this. God will get rid of these Spirits if you truly want to be a Hetrosexual as God made you originally.
Nobody is going to condemn you if you really truly want to unleash these Spirits.
Nobody (Repeat) is “Born a Homosexual” Uther. I don’t care what Hollywood or The media tries to sell you. You need the Lord to handle this not some well-meaning Physcoanalist.
To Gloria…Do you believe in The Serpent Seed Doctrine? This is a False Doctrine taught that Satan had “Relations” with Eve and That’s why people are not only are born sinners but where Homosexuals are created Etc.
You need to Study The Scriptures with someone who can properly show you the truth. No Way Satan can enter anyone’s DNA.
Comment by Mimi
Debbie, I have begun to read JOB it was recommended to me by Yumin. I have begun to read it and so far I am angry, but that is me. I will read it all and see the whole picture, I know it has a lesson to teach. But I still see God as creating us in the womb psalm 139 speaks of it.
“O Lord, You search me and You know me; you know when I sit and when I stand, you understand my thoughts from afar….behind and before you encircle me and rest your hand upon me….You formed my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you that I wonderfully and fearfully made….even my bones were not hidden from you as I made and fashioned in secret….Your eyes foresaw all my actions and all my days were written in your book before one of them ever came to be. (Psalm 139)”
Comment by Mimi
THANK YOU DENNIS FOR COMMENT 29. WHAT YOU SAID WAS BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN, WE ARE HERE TO UPLIFT ONE ANOTHER AND HELP EACH OTHER FIND THEIR WAY TO HEAVEN, BEAUTIFUL THOUGHT. I HAD NO IDEA SO MANY MEN COULD REALLY TALK. I HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO SO MANY MEN AND JUST FEEL LIKE A PERSON AMONG THEM AN EQUAL, IT HAS BEEN A HEALTHY EXPERIENCE FOR ME. I AM KINDA MISSING TALKING TO WOMAN, HAHA. I AM GLAD THAT I CAN BE SO CONFORTABLE WITH THE PEOPLE HERE.
Comment by Mimi
SHELIA I JUST NOW READ YOUR COMMENT, I HAD OVERLOOKED IT SOMEHOW. I LIKE WHAT YOU SHARED AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU BACK UP MY THOUGHTS ABOUT PEOPLE BEING BORN HOMOSEXUAL. I LIKE EVERYTHING YOU SAID AND HOW YOU SAID IT BY THE WAY. THANKS!
Comment by Mimi
HAHAHAHA, I AM BEGINNING TO FEEL LIKE MISS. PIGGY, I BETTER STOP COMMENTING, I FEEL LIKE I AM HOGING THE BLOG, HAHA!
Comment by Child of the King
To All
Let’s revue these Scriptures which Jesus Spoke. Prayerfully it will help those who don’t totally understand about Evil Spirits Such as Homosexuality etc;
Luke 11 v 24-26 “When The Unclean Spirit is gone out of a man he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none he saith I will return unto MY HOUSE whence I came out” Let’s study what Jesus is saying…The Unclean Spirit left the man after this man was converted and filled with God’s Spirit.(V 25) “And when he (The unclean Spirit)cometh he Findeth it SWEPT AND GARNISHED”. The man The Spirit left has now returned to his sinful life and God’s Spirit has Departed From Him. Why? Because The Spirit of God will not Dwell in someone if they return to their former sinful lifestyle. (V 26) “Then Goeth HE (The Evil Spirit) and taketh to him seven other Spirits MORE WICKED then himself; and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is WORSE then the first” Amen
Once a person has been in filled with God’s Spirit if he was a Homosexual he/She should never return to their former “Friends” who carry that Spirit they Got rid of. If they start hanging out with these folks and start back doing what God took out of Them; Seven Worse Spirits COULD get into them.
Case in point; I saw with my own eyes a Gay who became Converted. He did well for several Months then One Day without telling his Christian Brothers and Sisters He went to visit his former Gay Friends..And One day showed back up in tears and wanted to come back. It took an hour to cast the Spirits within this Brother. The Devil cursed us and thrashed at us. This Brother was vomiting and The Devil talking in gutteral tones to leave him Alone. We kept praying and Using The Name Of Jesus over this Brother. The Devil Finally left him and The Brother was O.K The Key to this is Fasting and Praying everybody. Remember when The Disciples asked Jesus why they could’nt cast out the Devil? Read what Jesus Told Them; Mark 9 v 20-29.
Read what Jesus Said he would do for Converts (Mark 16 v 16-18)
Comment by Mimi
CHILD OF THE KING, I AM GLAD THAT YOU ARE PART OF THE FAMILY HERE.
Comment by Debbie
Mimi,
Just don’t stay angry…wait until you get to JOB 42. “And on the seventh day God ENDED his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.” (GEN 2:2) God stopped direct creating of mankind with Adam and Eve and Jesus. Traducianism: The soul and spirit are propagated by the parents at the point of conception. The soul and spirit come from the parents. (PSALM 58:3; JOB 14:4; 15:4; PSALM 51:5) Since God created the first parents, He is the creator of all life. Try reading a KJV of PSALM 139. You must reconcile ALL Scripture such as PSALM 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” (preferably in the original written languages) with PSALM 139:13. Paul reiterates this in ROM 3:12. Everybody is born evil. God does not create evil. Only those who are BORN AGAIN (spiritually) have the curse removed. The flesh is evil while the soul/spirit is good. Our parents through Adam’s sin create our evil flesh and we pray that God will turn that around sometime before our death.
Dennis, at my age now, just getting out of bed is a blessing, so sex is not a high priority. God blesses some people with the celibate gifting. Uther is the one who I will intercede for. I know he may stumble, but pray that he will not practice (prasso) adultery.
MARANATHA
Comment by Mimi
Hi Debbie, I know you are smart. I thought when I first came here, that I could never write you because I could never keep up with your knowledge. But I have come to like you as a person, so I talk with you. I am on a journey with the Lord. He has always been faithful to guide me. He took me from not knowing Jesus at all to being born again and then Catholic. Now I am rediscovering things all over again. But this time those little questions in the back of my mind won’t rest until they have answers. Honestly this journey may be a solo journey. I don’t know if I will ever feel confortable in church again or fully at peace around other Christians. I just know I am going to keep searching until God tells me I am where he wants me to be, as he has so faithfully done in the past. And trust me, I have had some miraculous things done by him to show me of his presence. That is why I am even more sadden with myself that I don’t get what I should get when he went out of his way to show me himself. Thanks for the encoragement, I won’t remain mad, I will look forward to getting to JOB 42, because I know that God does have a plan for him. God Bless and Sleep tight!
Comment by ceseeley
What a tremendous fellowship of love, concern, Biblical knowledge, sharing, spiritual growth etc., has just happened on this particular subject … what a joy and blessing just to have read all these comments. This experience reminds me of Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.
The Sanctification process needs and takes faith as we go through it but God will not allow us to be sanctified at a rate any faster than what we can withstand; God is Gracious.
Comment by Debbie
GOOD NIGHT MIMI!! It is funny, I went from Catholic to born-again non-denominational…how funny is that? Fellowship is sometimes difficult. I have been to four churches in four years. I am now in a home church with a pastor that God has ordained for me to grow with spiritually. Our fellowship in study is awesome! We take care of each other’s spiritual, emotional and financial needs as God directs us, so we are family. I tell newcomers to our Bible study that it may seem like we are arguing, but we sometimes walk away with a new knowledge of a preconceived idea and sometimes we don’t have our mind changed, but we always come back. Our teacher Brad is correct, “when iron sharpens iron, sparks are going to fly!” That is my best advice to you. Try to find a solid Bible study where they look at the Word of God with an eye to history, grammar and orgin of language it was written in. God does not reveal His knowledge to you by the natural senses so never feel intimidated by any brother’s knowledge. His knowledge is revealed by the Holy Spirit to your human spirit. A person can be a mental midget in the natural world and be a genius in God’s world and vice versa. How many times I have had conversation with brilliant, intelligent atheists? Keep reading and studying. It only takes about 20 minutes a day, a few chapters a day and after 365 days you have read the whole thing. After a few years of doing that, you will find yourself wanting to know more and more. It truly is the “Bread of Life.”
Comment by Robyn Lindo
If God hate what is bad, then so should we, aftrer ll, god id the creator and as I do believe in Him, I can only agree and follow and stick to his word and as he has no reeom in his Kingdom for such marriages because He made Adam and Eve and place them in the garden of Eden so I an’t see why we can’t follow his rule and live like as we are suppose to. Those who do not wish to follow or abey God, I can only hope and pray that they will find it in their heart to get an understanding on what God’s purpose for mankind is and how we should really be living life.
Comment by Mimi
Amazing encouragement Debbie, and what you said about Catholic to Born again etc. is funny. I can’t write everything but I tell you if you could hear how God profoundly lead me on my journey my 1st journey you would be amazed. Maybe sometime I can share some of it. I talked plenty here already (MIss. Piggy, haha).Even funnier, I realized last night that my walk away from faith in general wae a slow process. satan showed me why I should no longer be in my bible study, no longer around certain Christians, no longer in my prayer group, no longer in church and he helped slowly chip away at my faith…I realized it as I laid in bed last night. Now I am trying to put it back together, but with real answers and with God’s help. It will happen and something powerful will result in the end, I know how God has worked in the4 past and I am sure he will do the same again! “Maranatha” aa you like to say. God Bless YOU! MIMI
Comment by Mimi
Mr.ceseeley,
YOU are the absolute BEST! I love you my brother in the LORD! You have always encouraged us all!!!!! You have put so much time and effort into many scripture VERSES that you alone have given me!!! I say HATS OFF TO ceseeley. horray! You know it is the child in me again, haha. Your Sister in the Lord, MIMI
Comment by Douglas Summers
45.Comment by Douglas Summers
Mimi,
As all true believers are part of the body of Christ, the stronger parts are to strengthen the weaker parts. We are set in that body (not by self will) but by the soverigen will of God, till we all come to the maturity and sound body (unity in one TRUTH and one Spirit)Honoring itself in love to the head of the body, Jesus The Christ(The Epistle to the Ephesians) Read it.
So, while we may minister unto you in your weakness, It is only God in Jesus Christ who gives the increase of Spiritual Faith…not human faith. There is a difference between the two.
What Scriptue is saying, Trust God in Jesus Christ. Search out the Scripture’s to see if things are true. Ask God and He will show you. Because of Christ work upon the cross, We can pray directly to the Father, Amen.
BTW, if you are suffering from depression, it will interfere with emotional rationalizing, detouring faith in God. TRUST JESUS.
In Christ
Doug
Comment by Mimi
Douglas I know that it is Jesus that will speak to me, strengthen me and change me and it is my will to allow him to do his work in me. I am not asking you or anyone else to do it for me. I must do it myself, I must find my OWN answers, ones I can TRUST and BELIEVE. I no longer am willing to follow everyone else just because they are “Christians”. I am NO longer willing to supress the QUESTIONS that I have for GOD. After all who am I to Question God? Well I am his child and I want him to explain that which no one else can. Yes I do feel depressed at times I don’t get this Heaven and Hell thing at all sometimes. I don’t understand why some people suffer from the moment they are born. I don’t get why a person is born Homosexual and has to deny their orientation. (I am not encouraging it either and I would not go against God’s teachings.) I just don’t get it, that is all. So right now, yes I am a bit angry, bewildered and frustrated. Why, the sufferings in this world?..Why is life the way it is? So some people can be born to go to hell for all eternity? I best duke it out with GOD, he can handle me.
Comment by Debbie
Please pray for us in Washington state. The gay marriage initiative was on the ballot two days ago and is leading with positive response by a 2% margin. That will give us the infamous reputation of being the second state in the union to approve gay marriage. It is a struggle here in the Northwest. It is the most ungodly state in the union and a mission field in itself.
MARANATHA
Comment by Child of the King
Mimi
You asked some pertinent questions about God and why we must suffer and Heaven And Hell etc.
First; Before we question God on why is this or why that we must read All his Word to us to fit the puzzle together.
It takes Years of Listning to annoited Preaching and Daily studying God’s Word to arrive at Firm and Sound Doctrine Answers. John 5 v 39 is one Scripture that commands us to be fervent I’m The Word.
We should never just go to Church and listen to anyone and take their word without studying and knowing if what is being taught is biblically correct.
Too many people do this everyday and wind up confused or being led astray.
God is not willing that ANY should perish but that all come to repentance.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing of The Word of God. The Scriptures detail the rise and fall of man since Eden. They were recorded to teach us what happens in various situations and the rewards and punishments related in those stories. That’s God’s way of letting us know what he wants us to do and how we can draw closer to him daily.
Those who Fear and Respect God and are fervent in prayer to him and obeying God’s Word are his true Children simply put.
Now, Why does God allow certain things to exist or happen to individuals? Again the Scriptures tell us God will punish wicked evildoers even up to the Forth Generation so even “Innocent” Ancestors and family suffer things not their fault.
Then we have people today running around serving the Devil in various ways so God does something to them etc.
That’s why the scripture saith “The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom….” Everyone forgive me since I’m out and about and don’t have my Bible at the Moment so I can’t quote what Chapter and Verse biut will be more then glad to if asked.
God created Man solely for the purpose of worshipping Him. Most people because of in-born “Adam Nature” rebel and serve our adversary The Devil Knowingly or Un-knowingly one way or the other.
The Devil has every trick in his book to create “Diversions” so we keep our mind off God and Serving him.
Example: I am a College Football Fan on Saturdays (After Prayers and Bible Reading) I don’t involve myself in any Sunday Sports…NONE. Notice how we now can watch Football..Auto Racing…Basketball etc everyday of the Week especially on Sundays?
So people turn Lukewarm or Cold toward serving The Lord and eventually they drop out with all the Carnality available. See why The Lord sometimes does things we don’t quite understand?
The Wise Person will Put God first in every situation.
Family having a Get together when we are to be in Church? Then tell the family you’ll be over AFTER Church. Then you’ll see the Blessings come down from Above…LOL
Comment by Child of the King
Debbie
I read your comment about Washington State being Ungodly.
Seems to me anything that uses the word “Washington” leaves a bad feeling!! (You know what Washington I’m Talking About!!) That’s why they call The Pacific coast states “The LEFT coast” LOL
Comment by Mimi
Child of the King, thank you for all the work and thought that you put into your comments. I also know that what you said is true. I have never gone through the Bible. I hate to say it often times when I begin to read it my mind races with all kinds of questions. I probably think of things that no one else would even begin to think about, I really don’t know for sure. Maybe I need to read the bible and write down my questions. I just need to find someone I can really trust, someone who is solely looking to God for guidance. I do know people like that, in fact I have friends like that too, but they have such busy lives. I will pray for God to show me where he wants me to go for HIS answers. I know I need to read the Bible and do so in a committed way. I have been in Bible Studies, non denominational and Catholic, I received great insights at the time. But one day when I was in my last Bible Study a leader I had from another prayer group I was in, never acknowledged any of us outside the prayer group and she had lots of friends in church. I began to feel like crap my faith wasn’t good enough. The women I sat with loved me and always welcomed me with open arms, but then I let the devil fool me and I thought maybe they pity me and I really don’t belong. I saw another woman there that I love very much and she loves me as a sister in the Lord, we have had some amazing prayerful experiences together, but I kept away because she is such a busy lady that I didn’t want to impose on the time she had with her friend. All these things combined I never went again. Funny thing the Preist was so holy and down to earth, I always left with a deep spirtual sense, but satan had too much power over me. I could never go back. Then it was Christians that pumped themselves up and were so involved in the CHURCH and looked so good. I couldn’t stand to see it any longer, so I got away from them. Then I slowly stopped going to church, I felt like a hypicrite and I thought everyone would know and that hurt too much. Lastly I dropped out of my prayer group with my beautiful spirtual friend who I love so much and God has used her very powerfully. You see she knows it all she saw it all, she tells me I am more Catholic and Christian than the people I compare myself to. She has loved me so powerfully through my departure from my faith. I talk with her on occasion and we can still connect. I came to GQ because I want to get back to faith in God and be obedient to HIM. I came here because my first experience with God was when I becasme born again. But I always talked to him as a child, many many times. I have always loved God. I know what I need to do. I need to quit listening to satan’s lies, my good friend I told you about recently told me, Never compare your spiritual journey to any one elses. We are all called by God to do different things and we need to only ask him what he is calling us to do. I believe what she said. I will move forward. I will be the person God wants me to be. And I know it begins with the bible and prayer. I may have a hundred questions, but I will surrender to the Lord, because I know he is calling me. I am so sorry for writing so many comments here, I really hope something or things I have said help someone else. Thank you for your help Child of the King. It is time for me to go open my Bible. Oh and by the way Grampa EC, I tried to memeorize the book of John, I am too ditracted at this time, but I will put it in the back of my mind to do it eventually…just so you know I haven’t forgotten what you said. The book of JOB is where I will start and somewhere else too. Gotta go, it is time I take real responsibility for my faith. Amen to that!
Comment by Douglas Summers
Mimi,
First, people are not born as homosexuals. That is bibical Truth, and second, it is sin that is the root cause of all suffering. Not are there only Spiritual laws, (when broken) cause a penalty. But there are physical laws (when broken)that cause a penalty.
God put all law in to existance. A physical law: two solid objects can not pass through each other. Try running as fast as you can into a brick wall. The penalty for breaking that law is bodily damage!
People abuse their bodies with drugs and other things. A women who does such things is more likely to have a baby that is born abnormal or handicapped. You have broken a law of taking care of the body…and the result is abnormality.
God does not do this…but men who are disobedient and rebellious do it unto themselves…..Yet, I have seen Love heal many broken laws.
It not that we would try to steer you wrong, but that you would see for yourself by the word of God.
We have all been where you are at….Love you in the Lord…really
)
In Christ
Doug
Comment by Anonymous
Mimi and All;
Mimi, God has taught me to wait for His guidance in all things and I don’t always make that standard, but He knows my willingness and heart. I rely on Psalm 27:14 (i.e. Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.) Waiting for the Lord for guidance in your situation and what happened to you during this Gay Marriage Blog commenting time, it came to me that whenever something happens to you and you start to get a little/very upset just turn it over to the Lord and wait for Him to guide your mind, heart, soul and strength in dealing with whatever it is. The guidance may come at light speed or you might have to wait awhile, but that is what Faith is all about. The more one does this and not just for emergency situations, the more one does it, and that is what God want us to do in the first place!
Comment by Douglas Summers
MImi,
King wrote about “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”…This is true. But when we gain that knowledge, we find out that God loves us, and it is a perfect love.
This love does not come from what we have done for God, but from the work of God in Jesus Christ on our behalf. And perfect Love casteth out fear. 1 John 4:17-18.
In Christ
Doug
Comment by ceseeley
Mimi and All;
Mimi, God has taught me to wait for His guidance in all things and I don’t always make that standard, but He knows my willingness and heart. I rely on Psalm 27:14 (i.e. Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.) Waiting for the Lord for guidance in your situation and what happened to you during this Gay Marriage Blog commenting time, it came to me that whenever something happens to you and you start to get a little/very upset just turn it over to the Lord and wait for Him to guide your mind, heart, soul and strength in dealing with whatever it is. The guidance may come at light speed or you might have to wait awhile, but that is what Faith is all about. The more one does this and not just for emergency situations, the more one does it, and that is what God want us to do in the first place!
Comment by ceseeley
Mimi and all;
Mimi, one of the functions of the Holy Spirit is to help one interpret Scripture the way God intends. It is good to read the Bible in an organized way, but it sometimes helps to Let God guide you to certain Scripture or areas of the Bible that God wants you to read.
Comment by ceseeley
All, The Lord started dealing with me because of what was being said in Comment #8 by gloria lombard which reads as follows:
“I think some people try the “act” & like it & some people are born that way, because the devil can get into any thing. The devil can get into the seed before the child is born & change hormones. Hey, the devil be at church sitting on the front row trying to see who he can devour. So think about it you people. What is good comes from God. What is bad comes from Satan.”
First of all Aaron told Moses to delegate responsibilities and so I will ask for the bloggers to help me with these concerns.
We know that the Aids Virus can penetrate into one’s T-Cells, reprogram the DNA of the T-Cell which then makes it start producing new Aids Viruses.
Pro 16:4 says The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Romans 9:13-23 says:
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
[Do these vessels (i.e. the wicked; vessels of wrath) start being created when God speaks of them as stated in Psalms 139:13-16?]
Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.)
Comment by ceseeley
Mimi;
Don’t let your tremendous mind take advantage of you; wait for the Lord to guide!
Comment by Mimi
ceseeley,
, have motivated me to quit taking small steps and get up and walk already! Enough is enough, how much more motivation do I need? Thank you all for your patience, especially those that have been here for me for several months now, you ceseeley and Douglas as well as others. I have been motivated all along, but now I want to really make a full committment, thanks for the push. Douglas you almost appeared a lttle frustrated with me, probably thinking when is this woman gonna get this stuff? Well I got it finally. You are a Solid Chritian Man and I never thought anything would rattle you, um, I think I did, so thanks for sticking in there, you gave some great advice, Godly Advice to follow.
Haha when I read comment 52, I said that sounds just like ceseeley, I see it was your comment, you had just forgotten to put your name and reposted it on comment 54. I DO see what you have been trying to TEACH me. To WAIT UPON the Lord, in ALL things. I finally get it. Talk about slow, LOL. As always you put so much work, thought and effort into guiding me. Wow ceseeley, sometimes I think I am your second job, just kidding. But what isn’t a joke is all the love you and others have poured out to me, I can’t phathom all of it, thank you so much. But I know the reponsibility rests with me. If I am to know God and grow as a Christian I must do the work myself. Yes all of your guidance as well as the guidance of so many lovely people here and that includes you Douglas
OKAY NOW HERE IS WHERE I AM GOING TO DRIVE YOU CRAZY, SORRY BECASUE I REALLY DON’T WANT TO, BUT IF I DON’T ASK I CAN’T GROW, REMEMBER I AM SOMEONE WITH A LOT OF QUSTIONS!!!! i DON’T GETTHIS SCRIPTURE VERSE, I READ ALL OF THEM ceseeley AND THIS ONE DISHEARTENS ME. SEE WHY I HAVE A HARD TIME READING THE BIBLE I AM FULL OF QUESTIONS…
“Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?”
IT SOUNDS SO UNFAIR LIKE SOMEONE IS BORN TO GO TO HEAVEN WHILE ANOTHER IS BORN TO GO TO HELL, AM I RIGHT?????? I NEED HELP ON THIS ONE. SORRY,PLEASE CONTINUE TO BE PATIENT WITH ME. SORRY BUT THE LORD HAS YOUR WORK CUT OUT FOR YOU.
I REALLY AM NOT TRYING TO BE DIFFICULT, BUT IF I DON’T ASK I DON’T GAIN FAITH.
GOD BLESS, MIMI
Comment by Debbie
Child of the King,
You are right. We could re-write JOHN 1:46; “Washington! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked. “Come and see,” said Philip.” HA HA….when I was trucking CA, OR and WA were always called the communist states.
MARANATHA
Comment by Mimi
I went on line and tried to do some research to understand this verse more, this is what I came up with:
“9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay – And much more hath not God power over his creatures, to appoint one vessel, namely, the believer, to honour, and another, the unbeliever, to dishonour? If we survey the right which God has over us, in a more general way, with regard to his intelligent creatures, God may be considered in two different views, as Creator, Proprietor, and Lord of all; or, as their moral Governor, and Judge. God, as sovereign Lord and Proprietor of all, dispenses his gifts or favours to his creatures with perfect wisdom, but by no rules or methods of proceeding that we are acquainted with. The time when we shall exist, the country where we shall live, our parents, our constitution of body and turn of mind; these, and numberless other circumstances, are doubtless ordered with perfect wisdom, but by rules that lie quite out of our sight. But God’s methods of dealing with us, as our Governor and Judge, are dearly revealed and perfectly known; namely, that he will finally reward every man according to his works: He that believeth shalt be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned. Therefore, though He hath mercy on whom he willeth, and whom he willeth he hardeneth, that is, suffers to be hardened in consequence of their obstinate wickedness; yet his is not the will of an arbitrary, capricious, or tyrannical being. He wills nothing but what is infinitely wise and good; and therefore his will is a most proper rule of judgment. He will show mercy, as he hath assured us, to none but true believers, nor harden any but such as obstinately refuse his mercy. Jer 18:6,7
sorry to say but I am still confused. Does God create some people to go to Heaven and others to go to Hell? This is NOT the God I know. But the scripture verse and this explanation come across that way to me. Am I seeing this correctly, I pray that I am not.
The God I have always known is a God of Mercy and hope, what I see here scares me. See what happens when I read the bible, LOL. And really I am not laughing at all.
Comment by Mimi
At this point I am worn down and don’t want to return until I have had sufficent quiet time with the Lord. If someone could help me with this one scripture verse, that would be great. If not the Lord will provide what I need, he always comes through.
God Bless,
Mimi
Comment by Katina
The Bible defines marriage as a union between two people (fine-a man and a woman) but it has to be based on godly principles. What if two non-Christians are getting married? Isn’t that STILL not the way God meant it to be, since God isn’t a part of that union? so what difference does it make? Not that I’m outside protesting Prop8. Just saying. IF gays get married, how does that affect any straight couple???? Seriously, I don’t get it. I think God is more concerned with the thousands of children dying everyday because of malnutrition-caused by our selfishness–rather than two gay guys getting married. Whether or not they can legally get married doesn’t change the fact that they are ALREADY sinning. They are gay. they are already against god. EVEN IF they were straight, that doesn’t make thier marriage godly. They are not born-again, right??? So why not let them CONTINUE to sin??? Christians need to be concerned about homosexuality IN THE CHURCH–like those priests that molest children–and not with UNBELIEVERS who have REJECTED god already. Stopping them from getting a marriage license doesn’t fix the ‘gay problem.” HELLO-you can be gay even if you are NOT married!!!
Why do you care more about the sin of homosexuality more than the sin of divorce? Why is homosexuality all of a sudden the biggest worry?? There are worse things to worry about. We need to make sure OUR walk is in line with God’s word, and stop trying to fix the world before we are doing right.
Comment by Debbie
Mimi,
When examining Scripture, it is important to look at everything. Who was the Book written to? Chapter nine of Romans was about the Jewish past; while chapter 10 is about Jewish present and chapter 11 is about Jewish future. Remember, most of the New Testament church came from a Jewish background and Christians were brand new. God is never unfair. Because of Adam’s sin, we all deserve the Lake of Fire. Because He extends mercy to those who will accept it, makes Him merciful and longsuffering. It is the flesh and evil sin nature that causes us to reject His offer. Below is an exposition of the Greek words in 9:21 and the verb tenses. It is talking about God’s sovereignity. He is all powerful and can do as He pleases. You seem to think that God owes us something? You have probably been taught salvation as an act of love when justification by faith is actually a stern and righteous judge demanding payment. If you go to court, does the judge excuse your crime because you are a good person? NO!! There is a price to be paid. Not only does God the Father say “NOT GUILTY” He provides the price of the sentence! So His wrath is satisfied (propitiated) and the bail is paid. The sinner is declared not guilty and free to walk. If God did not punish sin, He would violate His character of righteousness. He cannot do that, therefore, by offering a sinless man to pay the price demanded of all of us, He is merciful, loving and I personally believe brilliant. I could not have thought of this plan. His character remains true to itself and we receive the benefit. Stop looking at God as a loving man but as a stern and wrathful judge and you will see the love and beauty and fairness of God much clearer. Wish you lived closer so we could study basic theology together.
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?” (He ou echo exousia ho kerameus tou pelou ek tou autos phurama poieo ho men eis time skeunos ho do eis atimia)
1. “Hath not the potter power over the clay,” (He ou echo exousia ho
kerameus tou pelou): (He): the; (ou): no; not; (echo): to have;
to hold. This is in the present tense; it is constantly true of
God, our potter. It is in the active voice; God is the one in
control. It is in the indicative mood; it is a statement of
fact. (Exousia): power of choice; liberty of doing as one
pleases; leave; permission; (he): the;(kerameus): clay; mud
2. “of the same lump to make” (Ek tou autos phurama poieo ho men):
(Ek): out from; from out of; (tou): the; (autos): same;
(phurama): any substance mixed with water and kneaded; a mass; a
lump; (poieo): to make. This is in the aorist tense; at any
time, the potter has this right. It is in the active voice; the
potter personally does this. It is in the infinitive mood; a
purpose is being stated. (Ho): the; (men): truly; certainly;
surely; indeed
3. “one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?” (Eis time
skeunos he de eis atimia): (Eis): to; into; towards; (time): a
valuing by which the price is fixed; honor; with a price;
(skeunos): a vessel; (ho): the; (de): but; moreover; (eis): into;
to; towards; (atimia): dishonor; disgrace
B. Superiority of God Over Man
ROM 12:3; 1COR 10:12; GAL 6:3; JAMES 4:6; 1PET 4:5-6; LUKE 9:46-
49; EPH 4:2-3; COL 3:12; PHIL 2:3; JAMES 4:10; ACTS 17:28
MARANATHA
Comment by Mimi
Thanks Debbie, I have a lot of soul searching to do. I do know what gives me peace and allows me to feel in the prescence of God but I am sure many of you wouldn’t understand so I will keep it to myself. But I at least I can feel HIs prescence. Thank you for all the work you put in your post! And what a cute comment:”Wish you lived closer so we could study basic theology together.” I know you genuinely mean it. Funny, Judy has said some things and she is in the process of dieing and hasn’t yet allowed herself to believe it. She said that she is afraid to live and afraid to die. I tried to tell her about Jesus death a resurrection and she said “oh please, I can’t hear that right now all that suffering.” She also said that “why do we have to pay for what Adam and Eve did?” You see Judy is born again and is the kind of person that woke up and before getting out of bed in the morning she immediately begins to pray for soooo many people. She has always had a real love for people. Watching her face death has been a real experience. We always have talked about the Lord, now it is very real. At the Funeral Home on Tues,we were there for her 100 year old mother, I was able to witness a few miracles that God did for Judy. The rosary was said for her mother and when it was done Judy’s face glowed. I took her to the bathroom and she can no longer walk, she drags her one leg because of the cancer in her spine and she got out of the wheelchair stood up straight and walked into the bathroom stall, that was a miracle. She told me she felt the love of those visiting her and it was giving her strength. I saw God that day and now I have the hope I need to help her face her final days. You see I am acting as both a sister amd mother to Judy. The only people she has left are her husband and she considers me her sister. I really need time away from here, thanks Debbie for your help. I will reread what everyone has shared with me. I just don’t want to comment for some time. Thank you so much, Mimi
Comment by ceseeley
Debbie; you are such a beautiful Christian Person, Praise the Lord for You!!!
Comment by ceseeley
Katina and All;
Katina, what you say in Comment #62 is very true. Through faith, God choses what He wants Christians to be concerned about; Christians that are “Walking in the Spirit” especially!
Comment by BiblosLXX
Well put Katina, very powerful statement.
Comment by Margaret Miller
I read all of the above comments and it took sometime, but thanks everyone, I never took time to think about this topic before. Now you all have me thinking outside the box. I am looking for some new adventures in my life ans stumbled across this site. I think it is to my benefit. Honestly I never thought much about this topic before. I think that there are a lot of very nice people who wrote so many lovely comments here and I am excited for my new discovery.
Comment by Steve
First of all,I thank my God,through Jesus Christ, that I may let my heart be filled with everlasting faith of the Word, until the end. Let’s open the Book of Romans. We don’t want to. It tells us of all the things we’re not suppose to do. Romans 1,THE GUILT OF MANKIND, Romans 2, THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT OF GOD.Scary.Let’s close the book.I should have discernment; have some kind of wisdom;and be scared of Gods judgement, not mine.
Comment by Mr. Tommy
Hello Mimi;
Just my thoughts about Rom.9.21…….Hath not the potter (God) power (grace) over the clay (humanity), of {the same lump} to make one vessel unto Honor, and another unto Dishonor?
Mimi, when the potter takes out a piece of clay out of his container and puts it on the wheel to work with it, he does it all by hand. From the shaping of the body to the neck of tne vessel to the rim of it, all is done by hand and it is a form of art that is fascinating to watch. We saw an artist working on a set of vases once on a trip to the mountains and he had to start the second one twice to make it even close to the first one. It seems that the consistancy of the clay had changed and when he started working on the rim of the second one it collapsed. Rather than try to work the vase out to match the other one he simply discarded that bunch of clay and scooped out another blob of clay and started over. This time with perfect results.
This is indicative of the human heart; there are those who will accept the work of Christ Jesus on the cross and there are some who will not but only pretend to accept him. When he died on the cross he died for every one. “God gave his only begotten Son that whosoever willed could be saved”…….However God does not force anyone to accept his Son…….Out of love, mercy, and compassion for the world he died without any law to drive mankind to the redemption of the works on the cross.
Mimi, the same hands that made the first vase also made the second but because of the disobedience of the second vase to those loving hands, it was thrown away. I truely hope this helps.
Comment by ceseeley
Margaret Miller;
Welcome to this site, we are very glad to have you and your God directed comments or otherwise. May the good Lord bless and guide you every moment of every day with the power of the Holy Spirit tempered with Scripture and Prayer for His Glory!
Comment by ceseeley
Mr. Tommy;
Tremendous Spiritual Analogy in comment #70 … never thought of that Scripture in that way!
Comment by ceseeley
My main concern about the gay lifestyle is that they will not make it to Heaven:
1Cr 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind”
Comment by Bruce
You can back it all with scripture and what it boils down to is either ungodly overbearing parents ,or just plain confusion.
When such subjects grow up they succumb to satan for lucre or self gratification. its all greed sell your soul .thank God that he has nailed this to his cross also ———-repent and breathe life in christ he’s here and will be eternally.
Comment by Bruce
2 negetives can never make a positive and 2 positives can never make a negative …. positve and negative creates.. by God
I cant remember the last time this subject has come up with so many responses and viewpoints –what it is ,is not in Gods plan ,But yet he alone knows what we are doing for his Great commission. same sex sex is completly not of God . HE KNOWS THE FUTURE.ITS HOT DOWN THERE.
Comment by Debbie
Hi Ceseeley,
The word “unrighteous” in 1COR 6:9 indicates that they won’t make it into heaven, not the list of sins that follow..be blessed
MARANATHA
Comment by Mimi
Mr. Tommy,
I have something to tell you. God brought you to my mind. I thought at the time, oh yes Lord you are right Mr. Tommy, how could I have forgetten to thank him with the rest of the names and that was that. Then to see it is you that could reach me with the answer I needed to this scripture, thank you ever so much. (tears are in my eyes). I began to think this bible is just going to be too much for me. I will have more questions than answers and so on…Your gentleness and patience really helped to make me feel the peace of the Lord as well. I feel the Lord drawing me to HIM once again and I almost wonder when he is going to give up. Then he shows his face through his people such as you. I know I am a bit down at this time. I am sorry for that. But thanks to you I still have hope. The Lord is giving me hope too. Now if I can figure a few things out, I just may be okay. You have a beautiful heart, to not give up on me, to take the time and explain a scripture that really puzzled me. I guess there is still hope afterall. I am really struggling with things right now and so I am not going to comment much more for a while. But God Bless You and I had to give you my heart felt thanks. I am also so sorry I had forgotten to thank you in an earlier post. But at least God knew I thought of you, right?
ceseeley,
God Bless You too, can I call you my cheerleader? LOL. You are always trying to help me and others, thank you! I need to wait on the Lord, sound familar? I thought so. SMILE!
Comment by Child of the King
Katina
Thanks for your input on this Homosexual Marriage issue.
Speaking for myself and maybe others as well the real reason this “Gay Marriage” issue hits our hot button, is because it is being shoved down our throat by the well-connected Gay lobby. Yes we should pray for every situation and The sinners worldwide they find Jesus before they can’t.
It get’s under my skin when I see Un-Godly people trying to change things that God ordained from the beginning of time. For what? (1)To “Thumb their nose” at God and his Word. (2)To get benefits from private companies or the Government to legitimize their Reprobate lifestle. Why even have an “Amber Alert” for kids when The gay lobby is daily allowing little Susie and Johnny to live with Two Mommies or Two Daddies calling it a “Loving relationship”!!
Then these kids growup and think Gay is OK and they begin a new Un-Godly relationship with someone and the circle gets bigger etc etc.
That’s why this issue touches emotions of all God’s children. Eventually and sooner then later God is going to end all this madness. The World is a cesspool good people. Read this verse please;
II Corinthians 6 v 17-18 “Wherefore come out from among them and BE YE SEPERATE saith The Lord, And touch not the UNCLEAN THING; And I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you abd you shall be my sons and daughters saith The Lord Almighty”.
Comment by ceseeley
Debbie and All;
Debbie, Would you explain what you said in Comment #76?
Comment by Debbie
Hi Ceseeley,
For you, I would explain anything I can. In 1COR 6:9 it says “the unrighteous shall not inheret the kingdom of God.” The unrighteous or (adikos) are those who do not have Christ’s righteousness imputed to them. The word (adikos) translates with the greek negative particle (a): not or without and the noun (dikaiosune): the condition that is acceptable to God. The only condition that is acceptable to God is Christ’s righteousness, therefore, the “unrighteous” who commit such acts will be destined for the “Lake of Fire.” In 1COR 6:11, Paul acknowledges that “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Be blessed Ceseeley.
MARANATHA